Anyone else see EV manufacturers replacing 12V/low voltage lead acid batteries with lithium ones?

You can get lithium batteries for most cars, but they cost 5-6x more than lead-acid ones and don’t perform well in cold weather, so they’re not a one-size-fits-all solution.

Mark said:
You can get lithium batteries for most cars, but they cost 5-6x more than lead-acid ones and don’t perform well in cold weather, so they’re not a one-size-fits-all solution.

Sodium batteries could be a better replacement.

@MAKENA
There should be more focus on sodium batteries because many countries have plenty of sodium. They could help make batteries more affordable, especially for large-scale storage.

chozen said:
@MAKENA
There should be more focus on sodium batteries because many countries have plenty of sodium. They could help make batteries more affordable, especially for large-scale storage.

The problem is that there’s no real cost advantage over LFP right now. Maybe that’ll change in the future.

@MAKENA
The challenge is that most countries don’t have a supply chain for sodium yet. If the tech matures, sodium could easily outcompete lithium for non-transportation uses.

Mark said:
You can get lithium batteries for most cars, but they cost 5-6x more than lead-acid ones and don’t perform well in cold weather, so they’re not a one-size-fits-all solution.

How cold is too cold? I live in the Pacific Northwest, and it doesn’t really get that cold here.

@diallo
Happy cake day!

Lithium batteries struggle to charge below 35°F. There are workarounds, but if the battery is low and it’s freezing, it may not charge. They also drain faster in the cold than lead-acid batteries.

@Mark
It’s not just a struggle—charging a lithium-ion battery in freezing temps can cause it to short-circuit or even catch fire. That’s why it’s not allowed. You can only charge a lithium-ion battery in the cold if it has a built-in heater to warm the cells first.

Tesla’s low-voltage system is actually 16V. They design their own hardware, so they can easily check if their systems can handle the higher voltage. Other automakers rely on many different suppliers and need to get approvals from all of them to switch to a higher voltage system. Lead-acid is cheap, and since replacing it isn’t really the manufacturer’s problem once the car is sold, they stick with it.

@Howard
I think Tesla has three different types of low-voltage batteries now: 12V, 16V, and 48V for the Cybertruck.

Connie said:
@Howard
I think Tesla has three different types of low-voltage batteries now: 12V, 16V, and 48V for the Cybertruck.

Yeah, the Cybertruck runs on a 48V system.

Gabriel said:

Connie said:
@Howard
I think Tesla has three different types of low-voltage batteries now: 12V, 16V, and 48V for the Cybertruck.

Yeah, the Cybertruck runs on a 48V system.

It does. Here’s the manual: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-2233D4D1-D4E5-4897-9A41-DE8593381CAA.html

Gabriel said:

Connie said:
@Howard
I think Tesla has three different types of low-voltage batteries now: 12V, 16V, and 48V for the Cybertruck.

Yeah, the Cybertruck runs on a 48V system.

Thanks for the link! That was a typo on my part, but all fixed now.

Gabriel said:

Connie said:
@Howard
I think Tesla has three different types of low-voltage batteries now: 12V, 16V, and 48V for the Cybertruck.

Yeah, the Cybertruck runs on a 48V system.

Even at 48V, it’s still considered low voltage.

BYD’s Dolphin and Seal models have lithium low-voltage batteries, and I haven’t heard of any failing yet. But their Atto 3 still uses lead acid, and people often report issues with it. Not sure why the inconsistency.

BYD’s Shark has lithium too, saw it in a car review.

I replaced mine with an AGM battery. The challenge was finding one that fit perfectly in the battery tie-downs so it wouldn’t rattle while driving. AGM is much better for handling deep cycles.

Robert said:
I replaced mine with an AGM battery. The challenge was finding one that fit perfectly in the battery tie-downs so it wouldn’t rattle while driving. AGM is much better for handling deep cycles.

Isn’t the original Bolt battery already an AGM? That would explain the higher cost.

@kwame
Can’t say for the Bolt, but my Kia came with a calcium battery. After it failed once, I replaced it because I didn’t want to deal with that again.

Robert said:
@kwame
Can’t say for the Bolt, but my Kia came with a calcium battery. After it failed once, I replaced it because I didn’t want to deal with that again.

How does a booster work in an EV with a dying 12V? In an ICE, the alternator charges the 12V after it starts, but doesn’t the EV’s main battery do that automatically?