Future of bidirectional charging… will it actually happen?

Feels a bit disappointing that bidirectional charging hasn’t come as far as I’d hoped. I mean, owning a powerful ‘power-bank’ like an EV that only works one way just seems wasteful. If manufacturers focused on retrofitting or expanding the use cases for EV batteries, it could be a huge step forward for sustainability.

What do you all think? Will we see a future where EVs can power our homes, job sites, or even send energy back to the grid? Should manufacturers be pushed to make these high-capacity batteries more versatile?

Right now, V2L seems more practical than V2G or V2H. I think the idea of having a standard power outlet in an EV for small devices is a good step forward, like how USB chargers eventually became standard in cars.

@Amelia
I disagree. For those with solar panels, a battery is incredibly useful. Imagine an entire network of car batteries linked to the grid, acting as a huge battery to cover peak demands or absorb cheap energy off-peak. That’s where we’re headed, I think.

@martin
I see your point, but I think home storage systems (especially paired with solar) might be the best way to optimize energy use. Using V2L in cars, like to charge a laptop or other small devices, seems easier to implement than V2G. Many EVs are already charging during off-peak hours anyway, especially for those with solar.

@Amelia
The tech is already in many cars, just not active. It just needs communication with the home inverter. Most homes only have around 10kWh in home batteries, while a typical EV battery could add significant backup. With V2G, I’d save a lot on my electricity and even sell some back during peak times. Over the car’s lifetime, the savings could really add up.

@martin
That’s a very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing!

@martin
But isn’t most EV charging done at home after work?

Peggy said:
@martin
But isn’t most EV charging done at home after work?

Not necessarily. Where I live, people charge at night on cheaper rates or smart plans that go down to around 7c per kWh.

@Amelia
V2G and V2H are much more useful in the long run, but they’re also more expensive to set up. V2L and controlled charging, on the other hand, are cheaper and easier to implement. I think we should work toward deploying all of them.

Honestly, most BEVs on the road today are first or second generation, so manufacturers are still figuring out the economies involved. Bidirectional (V2G) charging is still in early stages. Besides, these batteries aren’t going to waste—they’ll have second-life uses and can eventually be recycled. If you’re keen on bidirectional charging now, the Nissan Leaf has actually had this since around 2014 and became more prominent in 2016.

@Mark
“Doesn’t seem to be evolving” makes me think OP might be new to EVs. There’s been progress, just not as fast as we’d all like!

In France, the only offer for grid tie-in at the moment just gives a small discount on your electricity bill, and it’s hard to tell if the wear on the battery is worth it. Plus, it’s only around €25 a month in savings, so it’s not great. On the other hand, if you look at it from a production standpoint, solar is very affordable right now, and I’d rather put the money toward a 3kW solar setup for my home to help offset costs. Working from home, I can charge my car during the day with excess solar production.

Warranties are still based on years and mileage, and heavy V2G use could lead to early battery wear, impacting replacements that aren’t factored into warranty coverage.

diallo said:
Warranties are still based on years and mileage, and heavy V2G use could lead to early battery wear, impacting replacements that aren’t factored into warranty coverage.

Maybe warranties could be based on battery cycles instead. That way, more efficient cars would end up with longer warranties for the driver.

diallo said:
Warranties are still based on years and mileage, and heavy V2G use could lead to early battery wear, impacting replacements that aren’t factored into warranty coverage.

That sounds pretty consumer-friendly! I doubt vehicle manufacturers are too concerned right now, though.

The main issue is that standards aren’t set yet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/v2h/s/LdpctylEA9

That’s why we’re seeing brand-specific solutions without a universal option. GM Energy, Tesla PowerShare on the Cybertruck, and Ford’s system for the Lightning are all recent moves in the right direction. AC bidirectional charging mentions are also on the rise. I’m hopeful we’ll see a universal solution soon, though I’ve been waiting since 2018 when Wallbox introduced Quasar.

@Christopher
There are V2L chargers available, but they’re mostly for industrial use and three-phase systems, which aren’t feasible for most homes. We’ll probably have to wait for the GM Bi-Directional charger or Enphase’s system. Until then, it’s a bit of a wait.

Bidirectional tech is evolving!

V2L was first used as a backup for whole houses (6-10kW) with CHAdeMO, mainly in Japan, and then V2G trials were held in Europe and the US. Then came OCPP2.1, which allowed for bidirectional charging with some trials on CCS2 in Europe. V2L at 2000W is pretty standard now, especially in EVs like Hyundai’s that use it for work trucks and vans.

We’re also seeing trials for AC V2G using OCPP2.1, so it’s happening, just gradually. Unfortunately, only some V2L models are commercially available right now.

Economically, V2G might not be worth it. You get a limited number of cycles per battery, so why wear it out for a small gain? Utilities would love to use that capacity, but they aren’t paying anywhere near the wear cost. They might give you a minor discount, but if your battery needs replacement sooner, the costs far outweigh any benefit. Plus, utilities can replace their batteries easily—our car batteries aren’t built for that.

@abidemi
I get what you’re saying, but battery tech is improving. Cycle life is increasing, so using it for V2G might be more viable than it used to be. With a larger capacity, even 167 cycles a year (for daily home use) wouldn’t lead to drastic degradation in two years. Also, most people wouldn’t need their car battery for the entire home’s electricity. It’s probably more about occasional backup or offsetting peak energy costs.